Posts by Franklin Massey

81

Here i am....

by makersmark in

here i am - born in truth, hard-core spiritual everything all my life, early reg.pioneer, ms, elder, assembly parts, tour at bethel, etc, married now...... i'm trying to examine jw teachings a little closer...... i've spent the last two weeks reading many many posts, info , references on where ex-jw's are coming from.

i'm kind of concerned about a few things lately..... honestly - some points make sense to me - some don't - here are my general thoughts:.

-wt getting un membership for access to library - doesnt bother me - some passports and other governement documents have similar forms and requirements..... -blood issue - some counterpoints to the jw 'rules' makes sense (original intent of scripture is unbled animals, white blood cells similar in mothers milk) etc -however a lot of 'apostate' reasonings and proof are inaccurate.

Franklin Massey

Welcome Maker's Mark. I'm serving as an elder now and have asked, or are currently asking, many of the questions you listed in your post.

I had to ask myself is, where does the body of evidence for any given claim rest? If I placed both sides of any given argument on a scale, which way would it tip?

For me, the deeper my research goes, the more evidence I find contrary to some of my dearly held JW beliefs. The more arguments I hear from "the other side," a side that is grossly unrepresented in JW teaching, the more often the scale tips away from the Watchtower Society. We have a serious problem with information control in the Organization, and rightly so. If we freely discussed all possibililties relating to any given teaching, said teaching is at risk of becoming less convincing. The more plausible options there are for understanding a metaphsyical concept, the further we get away from "absolute truth."

There are some things that JWs have right. But on these subjects, JWs are not the sole posessors of these ideas. We're not as special as we like to think we are.

The key doctrines that make JWs unique from the rest of the Christian denominations pose another tricky problem when scrutinized. If I move aside those that are shaky, unconvincing, logically twisted, or outright false....I'm left with the sinking feeling that at it's core, JW theology is not that different from the other Christian denominations that are, according to JWs, going to be the objects of Jesus and Jehovah's vengeful fury.

You were right when you said that you have a lot of thinking a research to do. I wish you the best in your search.

65

So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

by Mr. Falcon in

jw
friends

...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.

and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.

it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.

Franklin Massey

Greatest Show on Earth was a great read!

The brother, a bright guy with high education (studied at a time, when higher education was viewed a personal matter) explained basically, that evolution does indeed happen and is even observable. However, it is not a concept sufficient to explain the whole origin of things. I personally liked this approach, and I learned more from this talk than from the dozens of other mindless talks being given every weekend.

That's pretty edgy for a public talk. Good for him. The last talk that we had on evolution the speaker said, "These evolutionists claaaaaim that they can even tell how we developed thoughts and feelings. How silly that notion is! We know that we have the feelings of our Creator who made us in his image. Evolutionists call their opinions on the matter 'Evolutionary Psychology.' I have no idea what they're talking about and never heard of it until this outline mentioned it but we know it's just another one of Satan's tricks!"

I wanted to jump out the window. (Yes, our hall has windows!) The speaker didn't even attempt to explain the basic concept of Evolutionary Psychology, which means he presented no ideas to dismiss. But dismiss the whole subject he did. Worse, he admitted his total ignorance of the subject with pride and then chalked up the whole wacky idea as a trick of the Devil. He might as well have fired up the pipe organ, grabbed a few snakes, and finished the rest of his talk in a spirit-induced indecipherable tongue.

65

So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

by Mr. Falcon in

jw
friends

...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.

and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.

it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.

Franklin Massey

Totally. I was the odd one out and his tone was meant to put me in my place. AWKWARD! I was tempted to get personal and say, "Oh, so when did Jehovah tell you that it was alright to get drunk off your *** all the time?" But alas, I, in true gentleman form, refrained.

What bothers me is that they can't even handle the tip of the iceberg. I try to dial my opinions waaaay back and just drop the occasional, factual tidbit in to balance out the conversation. Sometimes it works, but lately, I just set off alarms.

19

WOW. This is getting tougher II

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/206514/3/wow-this-is-getting-tougher.

after the last comment from sweetbabycheezits, the thread disappears with no place to continue posting.

i went to page one and added a comment to the thread but i can't see it.. suggestions?

Franklin Massey

I read the Ingersoll essay. Amazing! Thanks for the link. So thorough and still incredibly relevant after all these years. The last section was moving. Why can't embrace the nobility of "not knowing?"

65

So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

by Mr. Falcon in

jw
friends

...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.

and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.

it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.

Franklin Massey

This past weekend I was spending time outdoors with family when talk of The Creator came up. I have no problem with someone speaking of the possibility of a Creator. My problem is when they try to bash evolution, which is what usually happens when my family discusses creation. There is always this tone of, "Them dumb Godless evolutionists don't know nuthin'." I mentioned that evolution does not set out to disprove God's existence. One person said evolution was "just a theory." I said they should check their definition of theory and that there is observable proof of evolution. The reply was, "I'm skeptical of anything that doesn't come directly from the Society." I could see the caliber of intellect I was dealing with. I said, "Well, the teachings of the Society tend to change as more evidence becomes available." The reply, delivered with self righteous smugness was, "I'll wait on Jehovah."

35

Does anyone out there understand how i feel?

by TimothyT in

my name is tim, im 23, from the uk, and im currently a jw!.

ok... to cut a long story short... i love serving jehovah but ive begun now to embrace my sexuality as a gay man.. although im still attending the meetings, praying to jehovah and trying my hardest, i can no longer lie to myself about my sexuality.. i have had enough of feeling depressed and confused now - its killing me!!!.

does anyone else know what i feel like?

Franklin Massey

Tim, your road will be a difficult one to travel and I wish you the best. I had a very close friend who is gay and decided that he could not go on as a JW. He understood the "non-practicing" option but the climate within the JW community in many parts of the world is a close-minded one. It can be difficult to hear people speak so harshly about something they know very little about. Although the Society has printed a couple of reasonable articles about the nature of same-sex attraction, the feeling among many of the friends is that it is something disgusting and worthy of shame. I'm glad you have reconciled your sexuality with God. That shows that you are truly seeking a personal relationship with God. Keep your spirits up, weigh your options, do what is ultimately best for you.

43

Young people, you can die if you do not progress in the truth and become baptized.

by garyneal in

this is what the guest speaker was saying at my wife's hall yesterday.

she and i was babysitting our niece and since she had three kids going to the hall with her (including my two daughters) i figured i'd go with her to help out.

they were rambuctious and wild to say the least.. while i was in the hallway with my youngest daughter, i continued to listen to the speaker talk.

Franklin Massey

We had an overeager and inexperienced substitute CO (who was training with the real CO) who dropped a bomb on our hall when he said with oddly blunt confidence, "We may reason that Jehovah will look into people's hearts, see good, and allow them to survive with us through Armageddon. That is not the case, however! A vital preaching work is going on and everyone will have the opportunity to hear the truth. If they do not accept it, they will not survive! Aren't we even more determined to preach boldly this important, life saving message!?"

He was trying to fire people up for the ministry by threatening them with not only their own bloodguilt, but also the horrible idea of supposedly "good" people dying because they weren't JWs. Super messed up! But, official doctrine. It made quite a few audience members squirm in their seats. The next meeting, the real CO made reference to the young speaker's comment, trying to soften it a bit by noting that we aren't out to preach a message of gloom and destruction, rather a message of love and peace. BS! If someone actually believed that their nice non-JW friends, neighbors, and family were certainly going to get the divine hammer brought down on them if they don't convert, they would use the gloom and destruction message to motivate them to action. They wouldn't soft sell lifestyle benefits and modern day peace of mind. Armageddon is so close and those messages aren't powerful enough!

If someone's home were about to be swept away by raging floodwaters and you were entrusted with the task to warn them of the danger, you wouldn't tap on their door and say, "Can you picture yourself in a dryer place where no one has to worry about floods? Wouldn't a place like that be swell? Maybe I can stop back next week and give you one tiny detail about avoiding floods. Oh, I forgot to mention, I'm just a volunteer and any donations you can provide to further my work will be appreciated." NO! You would beat their door down and scream at them to get to safety! You would cut out all the BS and give them exactly what they need to know to get saved. Which makes me wonder, do most JWs actually believe what the Society teaches about Armageddon?

I think a lot of JWs get through the day thinking that God would never destroy their "worldly" family and friends since he can see their heart and know that they are good people. But that's not what the WT teaches. The only glimmer of hope would be that even if God killed them off, maybe, just maybe, they might be resurrected.

When JWs preach this, it makes me not want to worship their God.

53

New member - my story

by Millions in

just a brief introduction, i thought i would try out one of the more established forums, have done some stuff on youtube and other places but thought i would give this a try.. potted history: raised jw by mother, in it for 30 years or so, baptised at age 18, regular pioneer at 20, ms a couple years later, mts at 26 and got assignment to a new cong, elder at around 29, came off pioneering around 31, came off as elder around 32, started to slowly wind down, completely stopped attending about 3 years ago, disassociated dec 2010. pause for breath.. the last 5 years or so have been a painfully gradual process of deconstructing myself and then piecing together fragments of my shattered life that are still valid outside the organisation.

the question 'who am i?

' has been a continual investigation; every day for the first couple of years i would realise another subject or issue that i didn't have my own opinions about.

Franklin Massey

Welcome Millions! You're off to a great start here. I'm looking forward to reading more of your posts.

40

Here's one more free mind...

by Pika_Chu in

jw
friends

hey, here's one more free mind.

i've been researching and reading posts here and finally decided to join.

i have to say i'm grateful for this site.

Franklin Massey

Welcome! Looking forward to your contributions here.

38

I'm a new study, need advice.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

a little background on me, i have never been a jw.

my spouse was born and raised in the cult, disfellowshipped as a young adult and is now completely shunned by family still trapped inside.

before i met my spouse i knew very little about the jws.

Franklin Massey

Welcome. Your reasons for being here and going through with the study are admirable.

I don't think there's a silver bullet for you here. I would suggest that you get to know the conductor on a personal level. Make time to talk before and after the study. Ask to change the study to different locations, like in a park or at a restaurant. Find out what their likes, interests, and spiritual hot buttons are. The more you know about the conductor, the better you will be able to reach them.

Basically what I’m doing with my in-law is playing stupid, so that I can get him to explain some of the more illogical beliefs to me. I’m hoping that as he explains things out loud to someone who knows the right questions to ask he’ll begin to slowly realize that a lot of the things he’s been taught and forced to accept without question are not actually based on logic or reason.

Brilliant! Don't let them read the answers to deep JW questions from the book. Keep aksing them questions about their responses. Prepare in advance and have some hypothetical questions of your own ready. Test the application of JW rules in tricky modern situations. Get them thinking and make sure they leave the study thinking.